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71: “Boom! – the entire world changed – everyone was questioning everything” – Mariann Sullivan – Podcast Host and Activist Lawyer/Lecturer – Sentientist Conversation

Sentientism 13 August 2021


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We discuss the biggest questions: "what's real?", "who matters?" and "how to make a better world?" with scientists, celebrities, activists, writers and philosophers. The Sentientism worldview is "evidence, reason and compassion for all sentient beings." It's a simple, yet radical, philosophy that's grounded in reality (naturalistic epistemology) and has compassion for all sentient beings (mostly human and non-human animals). Naturalism & sentiocentrism combined.

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Mariann (@marisul) is Co-host with previous guest Jasmin Singer of the Our Hen House podcast and host of the Animal Law Podcast. She is a lawyer, lecturer, teacher and animal rights activist.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is “evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” The video of our conversation is here on the Sentientism YouTube.

We discuss:

0:00 Welcome

1:40 Mariann’s Intro. An Animal life

– Working as a lawyer in New York

– Adopting a dog on impulse then waking up to animal issue

– “He’d stopped eating meat because of the way animals were treated – and t was just like ‘boom!'”

– Most people know there’s a problem – they just avoid thinking about it

– Joining (later chairing) the Animal Law Committee of the NY bar

– Connecting animal advocacy organisations 

– Meeting Jasmin Singer & starting Our Hen House

6:02 What’s Real?

– Growing up Catholic

– “I had faith but it was never a burden for me”

– Not really being religious any more… “but those voices never really go away”

– As a teenager “It just started to seem unlikely”

– Getting comfortable with “I don’t know”

– Ethics & evidence as reasons for abandoning supernatural worldviews

– The tumult of Catholic college in 1968. From dressing for dinner & attending church to “men with beards living in the dorms”

– “Boom – the entire world changed – everyone was questioning everything”

– Leaning towards atheism but not being certain

– “We’re connected to each other in ways we don’t understand”

– Non-sentient living things

– Woo! vs. naturalistic views of sentience & consciousness

– Finding awe in a naturalistic worldview

18:01 What Matters?

– “It’s all about suffering”… and about pleasure too

– Suffering matters… “It’s so obvious”

– “What kind of god –  would create this planet – where animals eat each other”

– Morality as compliance vs. concern for suffering/flourishing

– Reading Peter Singer. He wrote down what many were already feeling

– “Why did I get there and everybody doesn’t get there?”

– “I don’t think it’s a philosophical problem… it’s a psychological problem”

– “How can you not sound self-righteous when you’re right?”

– “I don’t understand why this is this big moral journey”

– The “all we have to do is tell everybody” stage of activism

– The family & social challenges of going vegan

– The risks of motivated reasoning even within a naturalistic worldview

28:48 The Future

– Balancing despair & hope with the help of Our Hen House

– Things have shifted. “It’s almost as if we have won the moral argument already.”

… and much more. Full notes on YouTube or Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our “I’m a Sentientist” wall using this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on Facebook.

Thanks Graham for the post-production.

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